When my world shattered

Brianna talked about how isolating the caregiving and the grieving experiences can be, and how creating art in a nonverbal way can be incredibly cathartic and healing.

Check out Brianna's artwork on her website and let me know what it brings up for you! Also, follow her on Instagram @briannalhb so you will get updates about her upcoming workshops and shows.

Please follow the podcast if you are enjoying the show. I would also be grateful if you can leave an honest rating and review so I know if I am serving the interests and needs of you listeners out there.

Have topic suggestions or feedback about the show?  Contact me on Instagram or email me at talkaboutcancerpodcast@gmail.com. 

Thank you for listening!

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My reflections on the conversation:

By coincidence, Brianna and I lost our loved ones - her mom and my dad - around the same time four years ago. Our conversation uncovered so many similarities and differences between our experiences of caregiving and grief, and all of it was so interesting to hear, like what helped us put things in perspective while grieving and how we handled conflicts with family members. But the way Brianna works through her emotions in a nonverbal way was so new to me, as I’ve been so entrenched in verbal and written expressions as ways of organizing thoughts and healing, it made me really curious about what I would end up creating if I participated in one of Brianna’s workshops. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:03

Hey everybody, this is Serena, your host for the Talk About Cancer Podcast, where I talk to cancer people about their experiences dealing with cancer. We're all given treatment plans when cancer shows up in our lives, but no one gives us plans for navigating the hard conversations we need to have and the relationship challenges that will inevitably come up. This podcast is meant to help fill that gap for those dealing with cancer. I think of it as an on-demand audio support group where listeners can hear about others' experiences managing similar problems. But most importantly, get insights about how our loved ones are feeling on this journey, none of us signed up for, and better understand where they may be needing support. In today's episode, Rihanna talks about how isolating the caregiving and the grieving experiences can be, and how the creation of art in a nonverbal way can be incredibly cathartic and healing. Let's dive into her story now, and I will check back in with you at the end. Welcome to the Talk About Cancer Podcast. Let's start with a quick intro and have you tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, where you're from, and anything else you would like to share with our listeners.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21

Hi, thank you for having me. So my name is Brianna Hernandez. I'm originally from Wisconsin, but I very recently moved out to Long Island, New York. So I'm adjusting in the moment. But I am an artist, curator, educator, and a lot of my work is very multimedia, can range from videos and installations to charcoal drawings and sculptures. And most recently I've been working with plants as well and in a sculptural format. So that's alive. But all of it's dealing with the experience of providing end-of-life care and grief that comes after and all the complicated places that it overlaps.

SPEAKER_00: 2:03

Can you give us a little background about how cancer entered your life?

SPEAKER_01: 2:10

So I think like most people, I had always been aware of cancer impacting people's lives, you know, friends of friends, family friends, teachers. I knew that it was a very present thing that changed people's lives in dramatic ways, whether or not it was a terminal diagnosis. But where it got most personal was when my mother was diagnosed with cancer. And the first few years, she was very secretive about how bad it was and what exactly was going on. So we knew that she had cancer, but it was kind of described to us as like early stage, caught early. Well, like it's gonna be okay. And so I wasn't as engaged with what was happening because she didn't really want our family to be. But as things got worse, the final year of her life, it became too difficult for her to hide exactly how bad it was. So I stepped in with my siblings as her caregiver. And at first we still thought, okay, it's bad, but we're in a position of caregiving to help you get better. And then we were confirmed with the doctors that no, there's not that option. Like, here's the strict timeline of your diagnosis, which is terminal. And so it switched to a caregiving to prepare for the end mode. Very different kind of caregiving. So she ended up passing away a year, about a year later. And since then, I've just been looking at what was the actual experience of being a caregiver for somebody who was dying, and how has that impacted my grief? And I guess the unique experience of someone dying of cancer as opposed to a different kind of death and the extra complications that it throws in with the medical system and all those other lovely factors. But that's I guess my closest case. Obviously, you know, other family members, other friends, but that was very much the most personal experience of cancer for me.

SPEAKER_00: 4:09

Going a little bit back to the beginning, why do you think your mom was secretive about it?

SPEAKER_01: 4:18

I can guess a couple of secondary reasons, but the primary thing that she was not really able to disguise her motives was that she had a lot of shame about it. She had a lot of shame about being sick. She had a lot of shame about the kind of illness that it was. She had colon cancer. And for her, that was a very like embarrassing, shameful thing. We even went to the doctor together. One of the first times that I went to an appointment with her, and the person doing intake on her was just asking her regular questions, what are you here for? And stuff. And it was an oncology center, so they knew that she had cancer, but they were just like, Oh, what are you being treated for? And she just under her breath, with her head down, said, Cancer. And the nurse was very nice and realized like what was going on and prompted, Hey, what kind? But so for her, a big part of it was shame and being embarrassed. But I also think she was very much in denial about how sick she was, and that if she just didn't talk about it, that somehow she would get better or it wouldn't get so bad that she would have to discuss it with us. Um, even as she was at death's door, she was still like thinking about when she might get a clean bill of health. So there was also a lot of denial there for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 5:38

Where do you think the shame was coming from?

SPEAKER_01: 5:41

I hear a lot of people say that they have shame around being ill. And I think a part of it for my mom, she and her siblings and her father, um, her mother died very young, um, they were all migrant workers and coming back and forth from very south of Texas to Wisconsin. And so I think that's a lot of where her pride in being like resilient and tough and not needing to be a burden to anybody. I think a lot of it came from that. So I think that's a big part of where it came from when it came down to her needing help in the biggest way. And so I think she didn't want to be seen as a burden. But also, I think about my own experience with grief and how there's been so much shame around expressing how I really feel and not showing up to places and to showing up in a mood that's conventionally acceptable of being social. You know, there's a lot of shame around being depressed and being angry. And so I think I can guess that maybe some of that is very similar when you're ill, that there's this idea that you have to be okay and you have to be happy and acceptable. And if you're not, then there's something wrong with you. And it's literally like you have a diagnosis, but also makes other people uncomfortable, and that's somehow worse than what's actually going on with you.

SPEAKER_00: 7:10

So, what was that like for you? I asked that question because that was one of the hardest things that I had to do as a caregiver. I felt like if my dad was more ready, I would have felt better. But because he was not ready, it was so hard to watch him go through those last steps. Would you say that that was the same for you?

SPEAKER_01: 7:31

Oh, absolutely. Just seeing how scared she was on top of all of the physical pain was the hardest thing. Like she was terrified, and she would have these breakdowns, and I'm trying to be there for her, but I'm also about to break down, you know, because it's it's so painful to watch, and you just know that they're in even more pain than you're feeling witnessing it. And so, yeah, seeing how scared and anxious she was about everything definitely made it harder. But every time someone tried to force her to like accept it in a way, it just made it worse. Like I think some parts of her knew and they just really didn't want to face it. But every time you like directly brought it up, it just sent a flare up. It was, it was not helpful. So, you know, as bad as it was, as hard as it made it for her to not be ready, it really just wasn't gonna happen. So I just kept telling everybody, like, this is not helpful, like we need to be mindful of where she's at. She's also got chemo brain because it's still leaving her system, so she's not even like thinking clearly all the time. Let's not go there, it's not worth it, you know?

SPEAKER_00: 8:47

Yeah. I mean, was that a conflict with you and the rest of the family?

SPEAKER_01: 8:52

Oh, yeah. Because, okay, let's context here. Yeah. I'm the baby, and my mother and I were very close. And in a way where like we shared things about our lives that she didn't necessarily share with other people. And so I maybe had a little bit of insight to her unspoken needs or traits that my siblings were like having a hard time with, especially in this heightened situation. So there were there were fights, there were arguments about what was the best way and what should we be doing. And so we had to, we had to settle those both in the moment and then also afterwards.

SPEAKER_00: 9:33

Could you maybe give us an example?

SPEAKER_01: 9:35

Yeah, I think there were several little things that kept coming up. One of them was related to her eating. And she was already not eating a lot because chemo was making her sick, but she would still ask for food because she had like a craving, or she thought, oh, I'm supposed to be hungry. And even though when she would actually get the plate in front of her, she wouldn't eat very much. And, you know, we would get into little mini-arguments about, I just made this for you, why aren't you eating? Um, there was some tension between me and my siblings around, you know, whether or not we should be giving her certain food and like how frequently we should be reminding her if she would like something to eat. And I think that was because like they wanted to focus more on, hey, this is really happening. And for her, that was a way to keep things normal. Because even if she didn't eat it, it was like, oh, I'm still asking for food, I'm still getting reminded to eat, you know. So that was that was one thing that came up a lot. And then also related to like medications and stuff. Like, why are why am I taking this again? Did I take this again? And the reminders that I would share were were mostly related to like, oh, to help you with XYZ symptom. And some my siblings were taking the like direct approach about how it was related to the dying process and how it was related to like the illness taking over. And she did not like that. Not one bit.

SPEAKER_00: 11:07

Got it. So it sounds like you took more of the approach of this is what she needs right now, right? Like everybody knows where this is headed and what the outcome is going to be. But it's not a hard thing to do to just remind her to e or give her something to e if that's gonna make her feel like things are still normal because we're doing that. Why can't we just do that for her? Whereas like your siblings maybe more have the perspective of why sort of sugarcoat it, maybe.

SPEAKER_01: 11:39

And I think for them it partially was because it was harder. Like we were talking about she wasn't ready. And I think they wanted it to be easier. So I think it was partially like their own experience of how traumatic this was, and just wanting to just call it out for what it was, even though that's not where she was at. So, like I absolutely see where they were coming from too. I was just like, you know what? I'm not gonna let you go there, you know, as the the baby who is like her defender now. Like, I'm telling you, no.

SPEAKER_00: 12:13

Did y'all make up after this? Or after that?

SPEAKER_01: 12:16

Yeah, okay. Yeah, it it took honestly though, it took a while, I think, for a lot of us to come to a point where we could more openly talk about it because we all experienced it so differently. And then like very shortly after my siblings who have a different father, their father was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. And so they had to go through the entire process all over again. But um, we've definitely gotten to a point where we can talk about it in a very frank way that's more healing, and we've worked through a lot of that stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 12:51

Yeah, everybody experiences it differently, everybody will have a different approach to handling a situation. So when you have multiple people involved, uh there's often disagreements, and it's really hard. I I used to have a lot of arguments with my mom on things like medication. When are we taking medication? What are we eating? Um, juicing, whatnot. And in hindsight, you're laughing. So there's a juicing story there too. Um and you know, like we were arguing in front of my dad. And like that was not a good thing for him, right? He's like, I am sick, and you guys are yelling at each other around me, like because of me. Like it didn't make him feel better. So in hindsight, like, ugh, all of those things like really didn't matter.

SPEAKER_01: 13:40

I know, right? It's so true though. Yeah, so true. So many arguments that we would have, and she would show the broken record line. She's like, I need a positive environment, and you guys are always arguing.

SPEAKER_00: 13:56

I'm so sorry. Yeah. And so my mom was the other caregiver with my dad. So we share the responsibility. And so once my dad passed and sort of that major stressor was removed, luckily we were able to move forward and there wasn't too much, I think, that remained in terms of just resentment of each other, but I can totally see that being more the case when it's like siblings. Because the dynamic is just different, right?

SPEAKER_01: 14:27

Like it's it's different.

SPEAKER_00: 14:28

Yeah. So aside from you know having disagreements with siblings, which I'm sure is super stressful and supporting your mom and going through those last days. What might have been some other really uh difficult uh things for you to experience as a caregiver? And how did you make sure that you didn't fall apart in the process?

SPEAKER_01: 14:53

That's a great question. I think um a couple things that people maybe in theory it's obvious that they exist, but maybe they don't think about them all the time when it comes to the caregiver experience, is how isolating it is. And partially that's because you're so busy taking care of someone. You don't have time to be going and doing a bunch of stuff with people. But the other part is that there's also a weird taboo around it in the same way people don't like talking about grief. It's like, oh, I don't know what to say, I don't know how to support you, I don't want to bother you because you're dealing with a lot. And so oftentimes a lot of people just like disappear. I had a lot of people disappear on me. So it's very isolating and also just made me feel like I was missing out on so much of my own life. Not because I in any way regretted being there for my mother is the greatest honor to take care of her, truly. Um, only in the way that like I'm in my mid-20s and I'm trying to figure out my life and where I want to go next and what I want to be doing. And all of that is on pause. And I don't know when it's coming off a pause, and I don't know if I'm gonna be a whole person when it does come off a pause. So dealing with all that psychologically was really difficult. The one thing that I actually had a little bit of time for because we were doing like sibling coordination, we all moved into my sister's house together so that we could like tag team the process. Was at the end of the day, my sister was back from work. I would go to the gym and work out for an hour. And I went every day, and sometimes I could barely move, and sometimes I would just be so like I have all this adrenaline from everything that had been happening that I would tear through my workout. Um, but it was like the one thing that really saved me. I don't know what I would have done if I didn't have that physical outlet. And it was partially that yes, this is like the me time that I get, and it's physical and it's cathartic. But also because I went and did it every day, over the course of my mother's illness and death, like her getting weaker and her disappearing, I was actively getting stronger. Like I could see my muscles growing. I was becoming more flexible and I had more endurance for things. And it was this really devastating but beautiful gift of being hyper-aware of how alive and how healthy my body is while watching my mother die. And it truly saved my life. And no people say that about a lot of things, but I mean it. If I didn't have that, I wouldn't have made it through.

SPEAKER_00: 17:58

Or this kind of came out of the need.

SPEAKER_01: 18:02

You know, I was always interested in physical activity. I've done dance like my whole life on and off in different capacities, and I've always loved like being active, but I had never committed to it in that way and in a regimen where like I knew what I was doing and I would show up every day. And I had never done it with like weight training before. So there was like a new goal that I had to wrap my mind around when I would go in. It's like the math of the weights and how many reps I'm doing, and and like counting. It was very meditative, like the breath work and the counting, and so that was new, but so it became a new habit because I approached it in a way that I had never approached physical activity before.

SPEAKER_00: 18:41

That's so interesting. I never would have described counting reps as a meditative exercise. But it's actually very true. Because I mean, you know, a lot of times in meditation, it's just counting your breath. So counting the reps is just another way to stay focused and take your mind off of at the same time. And so you mentioned about people disappearing, which is not uh uncommon. And unfortunately, I think we just live in a culture where people are not taught to have tough conversations, or that you don't actually have to say anything. It's fine for you to just listen and say, I don't know what to say, but I'm here for you. Right. And just have a shoulder to cry on. Unfortunately, I think that just people get very uncomfortable with the hurt that you're experiencing. Maybe I think it's maybe also a bit of guilt, right? Like, yeah, feel bad that this is happening to you and it's not happening to me. I want to make you feel better, but I don't know how. So I'm just gonna run away. I guess what what did you do with that? Did you talk to those people or were you just sort of like, I don't have time? I'm just gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01: 20:09

Kind of there were there are a couple people from that time who disappeared who have had very brief minimal interactions with since then, but for the most part, I just kind of said, I don't need that in my life. Like, I'm not saying you're a bad person. I didn't like directly confront anybody, but in my head, I was like, you're not a bad person. Everything in our relationship before, like, it's not that was nothing, but this is the worst thing I've ever been through in my life. And if you can't be here for this, I don't want you here moving forward because I don't have the energy, I don't have the space. And the same thing happened in in grief. Like after she died, a bunch more people disappeared for either entirely or for several months, and then tried to show up again. And I'm like, no, I don't have anything left to give to someone who's not gonna be here for this. And obviously, that gets a little complicated when you start meeting new people because you don't know like when they do the same thing. But um, in general, I just was like, I'm done. And at first at first, I was really angry about it because I just felt so, I don't know what the right word is, not like abandoned, but like I guess betrayed. Um, like I thought we had X, Y, Z in a background of our relationship for you to come and show up. But then after a while, I didn't even have energy for that. I was like, no hard feelings, I'm just done. So that's kind of how I approached it.

SPEAKER_00: 21:45

Yeah. I think that's what most people do. Because honestly, you're just like, I'm sorry, but I don't have time to take care of you right now. So and so I'm sorry if you mentioned this earlier, but when did your mom pass away? In 2017. 2017. Oh, okay. So same year my dad passed away, actually. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01: 22:09

So it's um probably about four years for both of us.

SPEAKER_00: 22:12

Yeah, my my dad passed away in late August.

SPEAKER_01: 22:16

Oh my god, mine my mom too near the end of August.

SPEAKER_00: 22:21

Well, let's go, let's go one step further. Was it on the 27th?

SPEAKER_01: 22:25

No, it was on the 24th.

SPEAKER_00: 22:27

Close though.

unknown: 22:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 22:28

Um, what has been your grief journey? So now we're gonna compare notes.

SPEAKER_01: 22:33

Oh yeah, it's been weird, it's been so weird. I feel like COVID really changed how I was gonna be grieving the third and fourth year.

SPEAKER_00: 22:48

Say more.

SPEAKER_01: 22:49

So obviously, you know, people talk a lot about how the year first is really hard because it's the first time Christmas or uh birthday or anniversaries or whatever, and that the second year is like also worse because then it's a pattern and it's not just this one time unique thing. It's oh no, this is yeah, it's like this is life now. This is she's not coming back. Great. But I had heard from a lot of other grievers like these generalizations about kind of how the third and fourth year go, like what to expect, when you might start to feel like a little bit normal for lack of a better word. Um, like you, it's still there always, but when do you get to a point where like you're not thinking about it every minute of every hour of every day? And so the very beginning of 2020, I was like, okay, I'm going into this next milestone. I really want to try to like be a person again, put myself out in the world again. I was isolated as a caregiver. I've been isolated in this first chunk of grieving. I'm gonna try and put myself out there and see what happens, see if I can handle it, uh, see if I know how to talk to people anymore. And so I went to an artist residency in Santa Fe, flew out at the beginning of March, and then everything got shut down, and I went home and was alone again. And it was both, I feel like hard to accept that like I was finally ready to be out there, but then this isolation was a necessity that I had to step back into. But then also seeing like just the mass amount of loss all around from the COVID itself, from complications of not being able to get care because of how booked hospitals were and how hard it was for people to make ends meet with everything being shut down. In a weird way, it made things somehow not easier, but it put it in perspective for me of how I was processing my individual grief against this collective grief, which was tied to a bunch of other individual grief. Um, I remember when my mom first died. I so desperately wanted the world to just stop. I wanted time to stop. I felt like my world has just shattered and stopped. Why is everything else still moving? I don't understand. It was very disorienting, and it made me so angry that people could just be like living their lives while mine was falling apart. And three years later, all of a sudden the world stops and it's not for a good reason. And I just kind of thought I thought back to that moment of how desperately I wanted that. And now I was thinking about how that was happening for so many people who like couldn't go to funerals and couldn't be with their loved ones like as their caregiver in person if they had to go to the hospital for COVID. And it really just put in perspective not this like comparison of who has it harder or easier, but just how far I had come in processing my experience. It really forced me to look back on the last couple of years in a way that I don't know that I would have if that hadn't happened. So it's very strange contradiction, I feel, in how COVID has changed. My experience of grief and I guess the collective conversation around grief seems to be still very much like taboo and on an interpersonal level, but on a larger like media level, there seems to be more discussion around the concepts and the research and the influencers who are talking about it.

SPEAKER_00: 26:52

I often think about what that would have been like if I was still doing caregiving with my dad during COVID. And you know, we definitely camped out in the hospital with him the few times he was hospitalized, actually, not a few times, like eight times. And that was again a way for us as caregivers to show our love. He didn't have to be there by himself, even though half the time we weren't really talking to each other, right? Right. Just being together, which is what you do a lot of times. I think what I found to be helpful, and I think this is along the same lines of what you were explaining, which is uh funny, is I joined Facebook support groups after my dad died. And uh I found ones that were specifically for caregivers and family members. And I started to just sort of see the circumstances that people had to deal with that were so much harder than what we went through. Because my dad, at least till the end, he didn't have any physical pain.

SPEAKER_01: 28:01

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00: 28:02

And then the thing about pain, like an extra layer suffering that you're just like, please make it stop because yeah, I can't take it anymore.

SPEAKER_01: 28:11

No, absolutely. And you know, I will say just as a side note, but I feel like it's an important side note. Yes, watching my mother be in so much pain for so long, like so much physical pain, aside from the psychological and all that, was devastating. And there were many times when myself and my siblings we did think and say, like, when is it just gonna end? Like, we just want her to not be suffering anymore. And I think a lot of caregivers feel really guilty and bad about having that thought, but it's so common, like if we would just say it out loud, like almost all of us would be saying it because it is it's so hard to watch. And it's not just about it's hard for us to watch it, it's that you know the only thing that's gonna make it stop is for them to finally pass away. And when it gets down to those final weeks, when there's nothing else, like they're not eating anymore, and they're just in pain, and they're maybe not even themselves, like half of the time they're asleep. Like, yeah, you don't you don't think, oh, I just want them to hold on longer. You think I want this to end, I want them to no longer be suffering. And whatever you believe happens after is a whole other thing. But for the physical right now, I'm like, I can't take it anymore, you know? And there's totally not a thing wrong with that. I just wanted to say that because I think a lot of people must feel guilty of not having that thought, but there should be no need for guilt. Like it's perfectly compassionate response to what you're witnessing.

SPEAKER_00: 29:49

Yeah. Thanks so much for that call out. That happened to me after my dad passed. So once he died, it was like. It's like that thing. That relief. Yeah. So I felt guilty about the relief. It was in the beforehand, it was like afterwards. And I was like, oh, I'm so relieved. And I'm like, does that make me an asshole? Like, why do I feel so relieved about this? Um, so what did you do to help you process?

SPEAKER_01: 30:24

A huge part of it, um, especially at the beginning, was my own art practice. I've been an artist my entire life, and I've also made work in the past as an artist and as a curator, like dealing with these really charged topics. So as my mother was getting sick, I got a lot of ideas about making work about caregiving, but I didn't have time to think about it or do any of it. So I kind of just jotted some notes down. I was like, maybe I'm gonna come back to this. And then there was a moment while she was more actively dying when I had this like desperate need to express how enraged I was at being so helpless in the situation. And again, I knew I couldn't do anything with it at the time because I had to be there for her. But I knew I needed to come back to it. So I put it in my back pocket. And then, like right after she died, I started making work about it, about the caregiving, about the grief, about all the messy places that it had overlapped. I noticed that in making the work, which is a lot of like videos and installations that go with those videos, expressing like more of the raw emotions and the psychological aspect as opposed to the logistics of the experience. And in making each one, I started to untangle where things were coming from. Like one piece was looking at that moment of rage that I felt. And I knew where it came from and what was causing it and how I felt about it, and it made it external, and I could really like take a look at what that feeling was, in addition to like having the catharsis of making it, because part of the video is shattering a bunch of glass plates. But then in other cases, oh, it's so much fun. I made it happen in a way that both gave me that catharsis, but also like made it this external artwork that I could look back at and understand my experience from and also share it with others because a lot of people had felt the same things and it opened this door of conversation around things that they didn't feel like they could say before. And other pieces looked at more of I guess the meditative aspect where I'm sitting in her room, like listening to the clock tick and just waiting. And so it kind of helped me go back to that point in time and understand where that was coming from. So each piece really looked at a different aspect of the experience and untangled that messy web to where I could, in the middle of really intense emotional moment or like a breakdown, I could identify what I was feeling. I could say, oh, this is a part of the trauma from caregiving that I'm feeling right now. Or, oh, this is, I just really miss my mom right now, or oh, this is I'm feeling frustrated at the circumstances that this has led me to in the direction of my life. So the artwork both helped me process a lot of that and figure out what I was even dealing with, and also it in sharing it with other people and seeing their reactions of similar experiences and how it resonated with them, how it brought them healing and gave them permission to talk about things, it also brought a lot of healing to me. Like I felt like I'm doing something with this that is not just like sitting with me and like having to live with this, but I'm reframing it in a way that is helping other people. So that helped tremendously and it's still helping. Like I the work is ongoing. It's the initial video series that was about the raw emotions, is a series of sculptures dealing with more specifically on the experience of caregiving and how to reframe that in the moment through um sculptures that take common caregiver medical equipment and elevate it through like gilding with gold leaf and silver leaf, kind of reframing it as this sacred object. And now, more recently, that's turned into reframing how we mourn. What kind of sculptures can I make that will transform a perspective on what's possible for memorializing somebody? And so all of that has helped me in an ongoing way to consistently, continuously deal with my experience and also offer to someone else, you know, some small piece of healing and comfort.

SPEAKER_00: 35:06

Thank you. That's very interesting to hear from an artist's perspective of how the work helps you process and organize, you know, your emotions and thoughts. Do you still think about your mom every day?

SPEAKER_01: 35:23

Oh yeah, I got it every day.

SPEAKER_00: 35:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 35:25

I like literally nothing in my life is untouched by her memory. I wear her clothes, first of all. I have all of her clothes because we're like the same size. We were twins. Oh my god. I wear her clothes every day. I wear her jewelry. My family, being from the south of Texas, like in the more like Mexican-American Chicano identity, I have an offrenda in my home all year round. And so in my physical space, but also in how I think about the world. So I think about her all the time when I do certain things, and I'm like, oh, that's very much how she would have done something, or in how I problem solve in the ways that she kind of helped me learn how to think more outside the box. I know everything about who I am is influenced by that. And everything about where my life is now is because of what happened to her and to us. And so I think about her constantly.

SPEAKER_00: 36:28

Not not in a sad way, it sounds like necessarily. Sometimes it's sad, but it's more just sort of like an acknowledgement. Because of who she was, yeah exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 36:42

Yeah, like obviously sometimes it is sad because I miss her, or I think about how hard it was, but a lot of times it's gratitude or fond memories or just plain matter-of-fact stuff. Like, oh, what did she do with that thing that I was looking for? Like, you know, so it can range, but most of the time it's pretty neutral to positive.

SPEAKER_00: 37:07

That's good to hear. Anything else that you want to say to the listeners?

SPEAKER_01: 37:13

Yeah, I guess speaking a little bit more to how the work that I do as an artist has been helpful to other people, is actually in a little story of um someone who interacted with my work and gave me feedback that made me realize like how there was a need for the arts to be more accessible in a healing way. And I know like people talk a lot about art therapy as this kind of like generalization of oh, you to work with a therapist and you like color in a coloring book or something, but not like that. I had made this installation and it was a video where I'm wearing my mother's clothing and I'm reenacting her movements, and I placed it in a picture frame on this dresser that is decorated with all of her things, like her scarves, her shoes are at the bottom, her clothes are in the drawers. And I was creating this piece as one attempt of many to like recreate this essence of who she was before she got sick. Because we all know that there's like that time period where they become less and less themselves, even if they're lucid, they're just they're not all there physically, you know, they're tired, all these other things. And so I was trying to recreate, you know, this memory of her from before she got ill because there was so much at the top of my mind of her being sick and her being dead. And this man saw the piece and was staring at it for a while, and I started talking to him, and he was saying how excited he was about it, because it made him think about what he would do if he were to make a piece to recreate the memory of his mother, who had also died of cancer. And he shared with me the idea about what his piece would be and how he would recreate her. And it became the preface for a lot of workshops that I run where I start out with a short presentation of my work, I get people kind of engaged with the drawing process to just to get them like moving, get them get their hands dirty. And then I like share that story with them just as like an entry point to say, hey, you don't have to be an artist or be great at drawing to make something that will really resonate for your grief. And so I always try, in addition to sharing the works and letting people take it where they will, I always try to offer that in a workshop format because I really think that having that external, that visual, that nonverbal way of expressing what we're dealing with is so beneficial to processing and healing and like finding understanding of our grief journeys, whether it's in the distant past or very fresh. So I guess I just wanted to share more that I really encourage people, no matter what you think about your own artistic abilities, to just try and make literally anything that you feel resonates with how you're processing your grief, because it will help to just externalize that and have that visual representation of what it is that you're facing.

SPEAKER_00: 40:33

Thank you for sharing that. Do you feel like when you make a piece, like an actual physical piece of something, does it feel like you transfer some of the sadness, anger, whatever it is, onto this thing? And you could just be like, okay, a part of what was in me is now in this thing. And so I am thus lightened.

SPEAKER_01: 40:58

Oh, absolutely. Okay. Absolutely absolutely. Like with each piece, like in the one where I'm breaking plates, I'm literally breaking plates and I can release that. Um, in another piece, I collected all the flowers that people had left for my mother while she was dying. Like I had saved them. My siblings were like, What are you doing? I'm like, don't worry about it, just put them in the basement.

SPEAKER_00: 41:18

I like as they're the weird artist child in the family.

SPEAKER_01: 41:23

I am. I am the weird artist person in the family who saves random stuff. But so every time they would replace the flowers, I would be like, put those downstairs, don't throw them out, you know? And so I incorporated those into a video. And so, in the literal physical sense, yeah, like it's taking these pieces of what happened and caregiving and grief and putting them into this other thing. But then also, like, if I do have those things come up, like if I'm like, Oh, I just want to break something right now, I can go watch that video. I know I did it, I can remember how it felt in that moment and I get that feeling again. Okay. So, yeah, so it very much feels like this external thing that both lightens me but also like feeds me when I need it, you know? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 42:08

Yeah, thank you. Everybody has a different process, but the one that I actually really love is journaling. Um, an earlier guest who talked about how important journaling is as a part of her process as a caregiver, but also in the grief process, because she said you don't need to make it perfect, right? It's just literally like you can write whatever it is you want and you could just rip it up and throw it away. Yep. And and even that can just take such a load off of you, like just like ripping the paper. Sometimes it's a cathartic activity. So yeah, so I think there is there's definitely similarities there in terms of the process. And are you still hosting workshops? Like where's your exhibit? How do people find you online and connect with you?

SPEAKER_01: 42:58

Yeah, so I'm thankful to still be in both virtual and in-person exhibitions right now. The most recent one I'm in is actually closing today, but I can be found on my website at www.brianna lhb. So that's b-an a lb.com. And it's the same for my Instagram at Brianna Lhb. And so on those sites you can find both previous works that are completed, but also I will be sharing updates on shows that are coming up, both virtual and in person, as well as different workshops. I'm currently working on planning one for November 1st for Diaz de Muertos. So stay tuned for that. I'm still ironing out the details, but I'll be posting about that on those platforms soon. And if anybody ever wants to just reach out to request support or workshop or advice, I'm available through those platforms as well. I reach out literally anytime.

SPEAKER_00: 43:58

Awesome. Thank you so much for taking the time to come and share your experience today. I really enjoyed listening to your story because it brought back a lot of memories for me. And I think one of the things that I learned as I continue with this podcast, because I think before I started talking to folks, I always thought about grieving as the sad, like fetal position crying part. But over time I learned that so much of it is actually about continuing to honor the person in a way that makes sense for you. And I think you gave us another way of looking at that today. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 44:39

Well, thank you. And thank you so much for having me. This is truly a pleasure and like commiserating over things. Like I know that this is going to be audio only, but the visual of your nodding and like the just the emotions on each other's faces, it's been wonderful, and I'm so glad to be sharing here with you.

SPEAKER_00: 45:00

Totally by coincidence, Brianna and I lost our loved ones, her mom and my dad, around the same time four years ago. Our conversation uncovers so many similarities and differences between our experiences of caregiving and grief. And all of it was so interesting to hear, like how we handle conflicts with family members during caregiving, or what helped us put things in perspective while grieving. But the way Brianna works through her emotions in a nonverbal way was so new to me. As I've been so entrenched in this type of verbal and written expression as ways of organizing my thoughts and feelings, it made me really curious about what I would end up creating if I participated in one of Brianna's workshops. I've included Brianna's website link in the show notes. Go check out her work and let me know what it brings up for you. You can share your thoughts by emailing info at talkabout cancerpodcast.com or find me on most major social media platforms. Thank you for listening.