Fast forward your life

Babz walked us through how he reacted when he first got his diagnosis and how he quickly realized that dealing with cancer was mostly a mental game.

You can check out Babz's Community Interest Company Freshrb, which uses video production to highlight marginalized health issues.

Please follow the podcast if you are enjoying the show. Would also be awesome if you can leave an honest rating and review so I know if I am serving the interests and needs of you listeners out there.

Have topic suggestions or feedback about the show?  Contact me on Instagram or email me at talkaboutcancerpodcast@gmail.com. 

Thank you for listening!

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My reflections on the conversation:

Babz mentioned the idea of “fast-forwarding your life” a few times during our discussion, and I thought it’s a pretty succinct way to describe a critical part of people’s experience with cancer because in an instant, a cancer diagnosis forces you to answer all the major life questions you haven’t yet answered with nearly no time to thoughtfully understand the issue and think through all the options and potential outcomes. Too many have had to deal with lasting consequences because they were either not fully informed, or not informed at all. 

I also thought it was very interesting for Babz to share that it wouldn’t have made a big difference if his medical team was more direct in their communication while Babz was waiting for his diagnosis. I know it would have driven me crazy to have to wait six months to get a confirmation and all the while experiencing strange symptoms. But that’s also what I love about making this podcast, is that it challenges my assumption about other’s experiences and perspectives!

I’m embarrassed to say that I don’t know anything about Nigerian culture even though I lived in NYC for 7 years and it has one of the largest Nigerian populations in the US. But it was so interesting to hear about the similarities between the Nigerian and the Chinese cultures, such as not talking about illnesses and being suspicious about non-traditional careers!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:03

Hey everybody. Welcome to episode 28 of the Talk About Cancer Podcast. This is your host, Serena. In today's episode, Babs walked us through how he reacted when he first got his diagnosis and how he quickly realized that dealing with cancer was mostly a mental game. Let's dive into his story now, and I will check back in with you at the end. Welcome to the Talk About Cancer Podcast. Let's start with a quick intro and have you tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, where you're from, and anything else you would like to share with our listeners.

SPEAKER_01: 0:42

Yes, um, my name is Babs. I am currently based in Manchester in the UK. I am a cancer survivor, as I'm on here. Um, but um my background is I am originally Nigerian and I moved to the UK in 2005, and ever since then I've been here. Um I'm a social entrepreneur. Um I believe in using media as a tool to raise the awareness of health conditions, and that's obviously off the back of my diagnosis with cancer. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13

I am slightly jealous. Maybe envious. Social entrepreneurship is something that I have been interested in for a long time. So I love to hear more about um what you're doing with that. Of course. Yeah. So can you maybe take us back to the beginning of journey? Like how did your cancer journey start?

SPEAKER_01: 1:34

Yeah, definitely. Um so in 2000 and uh what end of 2018. 18, 2008, sorry, 2008, I had like a lump at the back of my neck, and I just thought it was a lump, you know, thought nothing of it. And then um it was there for a good five to six months. And then um a couple of my friends was just like, you know, get a check, you know, get that check. Because obviously, as a guy, you just think it's something that is, you know, mundane or something that's just redundant and just let it go. But then eventually I decided to say, okay, let me just go get it checked. You know, went to, you know, first doctor's appointment, you know, they checked what it is, they take blood tests, they do all sorts of stuff, try to figure out what it is, and you know, everything comes back um negative. So it's like, okay, go on to the next specialist, and you go on to the next specialist. So this all went for for like a good probably from April straight through to about, yeah, till about two, uh it's about September, October, November, around that time. Um, my diagnosis officially came in December, anyways, which is literally um, I think a day before my 21st birthday. Um, off the back of all this time, going through all these different tests. Um, you just kind of, you know, thinking, what could it be? What could it be? Um, but I also I already had signs and symptoms. So, like, you know, I was, you know, having night sweats constantly. Um my lymph nodes were always inflamed, or and then, you know, whenever I get a cut, you know, my tonsils always get inflamed so much. And I used to have all these like, you know, maybe little moments of fatigue. And obviously, because I used to go to the gym a lot. I thought it was just, you know, being tired from going to the gym and whatnot. But um later to figure out that that was all signs and symptoms of um non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. So in 2009, um, I like to say on my 21st birthday, but right now I'm always thinking, is it was it on my 21st birthday or was it the day before? It's right, it's all a blur now. But yeah, I got um I got sent a letter from the doctors and says, Come in, we've got uh a diagnosis for you and make sure you come in with someone. I'm like, okay, come in with someone. Like, um, and obviously at that point in my life, you know, I was with my my ex over then and um she yeah, she came with me and we went in there, and um the doctors just said, Um, you've got well, they they went through a whole sort of different things, and they just said, You've got non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. And I was like, What's that? Like, what's that? Like, what does that what does that have to do with anything? And then he said a couple of things again, and then I just heard cancer, and then I don't remember anything else he said. Like, all I heard was cancer, and it was all like a you know, I I funnily enough, I I I interviewed somebody who also, you know, um got diagnosed, and I think she she put it in a nice way, it was like a fishbowl effect. So, you know, when you're like in a fishbowl and you can't hear anything, everything's all muffled up. That's how it felt. You know, that's how it felt. So um, yeah, that's the story.

SPEAKER_00: 4:32

That fishbowl description makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_01: 4:36

Doesn't it? It is it's powerful. It's powerful. I mean, I think when she said it, I was like, that's exactly how I felt. Because obviously, once they tell you that you've been diagnosed, you don't hear anything else. Like everything else is just muffled up. And I always say I transcended my body. So I kind of like got out of my body, and it was like I was in the corner of the room and I was just watching the whole conversation happen without me being in the middle of it. And it was just like, yeah, it it almost you went to a third person, and then eventually it got to the point when I was just like, is this a joke? Like somebody just messing about, somebody gonna yell cut, like is it a film or something? Like, what's going on in?

SPEAKER_00: 5:11

I like to ask this question of my male guests. Go on, which is with the lump, because I know for my dad, he was very much like ostrich head in the sand with any medical care. And, you know, he waited until he had this nagging cough that just didn't go away for months. And also with lots and lots of nagging from my mom before he decided to go see the doctor. So with the lump that you had, were you a little bit worried? And you were just trying to kind of ignore it, or did you really just didn't think anything of it? You're like, yeah, whatever. It's kind of weird, but not a big deal.

SPEAKER_01: 5:54

I think initially, I didn't think of it as a big as a big deal. Like I just thought it was a lump, you know, maybe a lump that would just come up and go back down. So that's that's just literally what I thought it was. Um, but then when it was there for about a good three, four months, I was like, what is this? Like, why is it there? Like, you know, and and back then, you know, as vain as I was, I was like, this is messing up my freshness. Like, what why am I having this big lump at the back of my neck? And and then I just, yeah, I think over time, it started to become a little like it's like the weight of it started to get, you know, you know, started to become more um become more real. Um because so like when I went for the first doctor's check and everything came back negative, I mean, I always started to think, oh, well, is this some kind of like cancer shell or something like that? Um I didn't know much about cancer, but I know that I, you know, you see in films and you kind of have an idea of what cancer is. And I remember back in the days, you used to say, Oh, if you have this, man, that's like, you know, you don't even know what to do. Like you that, you know, it's it's almost like a red herring from my life. Because I remember watching a film, I think it was ER, one of them series, and I was just like, oh, if I had this, man, oh, that's the end of my life. Like, that's crazy. And then, you know, how ironic was it that you know it was cancer. Um, but yeah, no, I think over time, it at the start it was a bit more, you know, you're more blasé about it. But then over time, as the doctors keep sending you to different specialists, then it's like, okay, what is this about?

SPEAKER_00: 7:25

Yeah. And during that whole process, you know, it sounds like they took, I don't know, six months to actually diagnose you. Were they being transparent about what they thought it might be? Or it was just kind of like, oh, we don't know yet. Just go to this other scan, go to this other scan. Because that that's also a common complaint from people sometimes is like, yeah, you know, they kind of know, but they're just being vague. Like nobody wants to come out and and just like really level set with you to prepare you. Like this could be bad, right? The chances of this being something bad is this much. And throughout that process, did you feel like the medical professionals you had to deal with, were they being pretty transparent with you, or you just felt like you were kind of left to figure things out or just fill stuff in your head, basically, which is even worse.

SPEAKER_01: 8:15

Yeah, I think it was the it was the latter. Like it's basically what you said, which is they just they just try to be completely like closed off to the idea. And it's almost like when the diagnosis happened, everybody's surprised together, you know? But then the way they deliver it, you know they've always had an idea or had an inclination that that's what it was potentially. Um, you know, it's funny because I do reflect a lot, but when you say stuff like this, I haven't really fully reflected on that aspect of things. And now I look back at it. I mean, would it have been better if they had told me off the get-go or taking me through the whole process? I don't know. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't know because I feel like they were trying to, I mean, obviously, maybe maybe just putting plain plain their side of things, maybe they're just trying to be safe, like, you know, trying to make sure that they've gone through all the whole procedure that they need to go through to conf confidently tell you this rather than making you scared. Because sometimes, and one thing I've noticed from even anything in life regards to a health condition, a lot of the effect is more psychological. Um, and that's back to the thing about tragedy to triumph. And that's kind of you know, I I say that yes, I went through chemo, chemo did heal my physical body, but that's only 10% of the journey. So 10% was was that. The remaining 90% was my paradigm shift on how life is supposed to be lived, and I felt like that in itself was a pure healing in terms of just going through the whole process. Um, I I I know I remember being in wards whereby I'm going through chemo, and you know, I'm sat here with somebody else who's got leukemia, and we're both, you know, here laughing and talking and giggling and chatting. And somebody from the outside will look at us and think, oh, these guys are actually going through, you know, going through hard times. But here we are, you know, sort of like we are completely void of any material things, and yet we're excited about life, you know, and we're excited about the remaining days we might have left, you know. And I and I feel like when that happens, it's almost like once you get your diagnosis, everything after that is almost a psychological game or you know, a mind game. Like, how do you cope with this? Because the diagnosis is right here. So yeah, I mean, but yeah, going back to your question, I don't feel I feel like yes, they had they were very closed off, but for me personally, I don't know if whether or not if they were open up at the start would have made me any different to to responding to how I responded, anyways, to the to the diagnosis.

SPEAKER_00: 10:52

But sticking with that, you know, from tragedy to triumph.

SPEAKER_01: 10:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 10:57

I imagine, I mean, you had to have gone through a dark period after hearing those words and going into the fishbowl.

SPEAKER_01: 11:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 11:06

Um but but tell us about tragedy to triumph. Like how did that happen for you?

SPEAKER_01: 11:14

So prior to my diagnosis, um, I like to think that I had a you know buzz in life. I like thinking that my life was you know off the hinges and just wild and crazy and living life, you know, on my own terms. Um, but when I got diagnosed, I felt like everything just came to a screeching hole. Like everything, and I know everybody's the same, like everything came to a screeching hole. And you were a it's like you were right here trying to do open heart surgery on yourself whilst nobody else is there to tell you what to do and how to really respond to this. Um so at the point when I got you know diagnosed, the first emotion that you feel is confusion, like you're completely confused, like then it goes to like why me? You know, it goes to the question of why me, then it goes to anger, and then from there some people stop at that. And I think that's that's kind of like that's that's the sad tragedy, in a sense of like, you know, you get to anger because anger for me was more like, you know, why me? There's all sorts of people doing all sorts of stuff, you know. I don't drink as much as other people. Like, you know, I drink, but I don't drink as much as other people, you know. And um, and for me, obviously, you know, I uh as you probably would sense, I believe in God. So I had the conversation with God and I was like, look, hey, like, you know, what's going on here, man? Like, what why am I over here, you know, do what you do? And and I think, I think one of the qu one of the things that got me completely down and saddened out was when the doctors said, you know, you can go through chemo, but it doesn't mean it can, it can cure you, it doesn't mean it can take away the cancer. I used to play out the sort of like um the aftermath of if it didn't go through after I'd gone through chemo, my brothers are gonna be, you know, when they get married, they're gonna have kids, and they're gonna tell their kids, you know, we had an uncle. Oh, you would have had an uncle, but he's gone now, you know, like he's done. And I think that thought, the thought of just being gone off the face of the earth and nobody really remembering you was actually very real. And I I used to think that I was very memorable, but I but whilst I was going through chemo, you know, and I never told anybody about it. I actually kept it to myself. The only people that knew about it were my family, my flatmate, and then my ex-girlfriend. And I was like, nobody even cares. It's like it's like if I was gone now, that's it. And I think that's the reality of life. And I till today I say it, you know, you know, don't think you're doing anything completely landmark-changing because you will be forgotten when you go. So the most important thing is every day of your life, make sure you're maxing it to your own potential and what you feel is right or what you feel life should be like to be lived, you know, and and that's where being a social entrepreneur comes in place and stuff for me. Um it's just making sure every day is really, you know, it's really maxed out. Like, you know, go to bed feeling happy that you've done, you've lived a good day. Even if you even if you've had a bad day, feel the bad emotions. Like let those emotions get in and sink in and you know, feel the emotions. And I and I feel like that's that's what people get wrong. Is that um I know you're talking about everybody being positive, you know, when we come on here, we're positive, but I I feel like it's also about just being completely present in life. So so yeah, I think my emotions went from you know confusion from there straight on to why me, and then eventually anger. But then after I came to terms with what was going on around me, then yeah, you know, I think the healing began. And the healing is still going to today. So it's like it's just like a it's like you started a journey in life, and I feel like at the age of 21, which is 21 being sort of like when you become become an adult, that's like adulthood. I feel like from the age of 21 to now, I've at least 80, 80% of my days, I've I've I've felt happy about the days, like you know, maxed out the days and being aware of just life in general. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:10

So are you saying that you were able to move past that angry phase?

SPEAKER_01: 15:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:16

Because you leaned into that pain and continued to process. And did your faith play a part in also helping you turn the corner?

SPEAKER_01: 15:26

Yes. It's it's kind of funny you just mentioned mostly everything that I do, anyways. You know, you you always think, you know, is it really, are they just messing about? Are they really telling me do I really have cancer and whatnot? And and but then when you accept this, it's like, and then what? So I say that a lot to a lot of people. It's like, and then what? Okay, so for anything in life, whether you you make a lot of money or whether you're you're you know, you're here getting married, you have a kid, whatever it is, and then what? You know, and then what? So what are you gonna do now that now that you know that this is the reality that you've been you've been dealt with? So for me, I feel like the first thing was acceptance, like accepting that, okay, some people don't get cancer, some people do. I just happen to be the some people who do, you know, and that's what's happened right now. And then what? It's like what do you do now with it? Um, you can't change that reality, you know, you can't change that fact that you have been diagnosed with cancer. But what you can do is you can create a damn good narrative after that. That's what you can do. And I felt like that was the first thing. The second thing was, you know, discovery for myself. Because before then, you know, I obviously was brought up a Christian, but never really was a believer in that level of just, you know, my faith and whatnot. And when that happened, I picked up the Bible, started to read, and most of the words just started to spring out to me and start making sense. Um, till today, I'm still discovering the faith, you know, like it's like it's a thing. But I think the main things about reading the Bible was that I was able to start to understand some wisdom text. So wisdom texts and how to live life. And for me, favorite books in the Bible are the wisdom books, like the books about how to live your life to the fullest. And those words sprung out to me. And, you know, in my mind, I was like, you know, I guess, you know, when I come out of this, and if I'm able-bodied, I mean, I'm I'm okay and I'm able to live my life, I will make sure that I implement these wisdom texts and just, you know, live my life to the fullest as much as I can. We're not perfect, so we're not even, I'm not even striving to be perfect. I'm just striving to be the best me I can be as best as I can in my short-lived life on earth. And so these things were tools that allowed me to figure out what I wanted to do with my life post-chemo. So I was always living post-chemo. So that was one thing that I also did. I always used to think, okay, after this, what am I gonna do? After this, what am I gonna do? I was, and it was that's where media came in place. So um before my diagnosis, how I knew that I was so passionate about media was obviously in uni, which is college in America, um, I was basically um uh doing a lot of media stuff for the student community, the student um union over there. And then also I was an intern at the BBC for about 11 months prior to my diagnosis. So it's kind of just weird. The year before it, I used to I was engaging in um TV making and radio production, and I was like, this is you know, this is what gives me life. I love it. And obviously, being diagnosed, I was like, oh, what can I do to keep my life going? And you know, I started doing loads of like different, just you know, short films and stuff, getting people just send me videos and I put it together, making some music, and all that stuff just got me buzzing, saying, ooh, when I come out of this, this is what I want to do with my life. I want to make sure that I can use media to just be a tool to pass on messages. I didn't even know it was gonna be about health. I just said, Yeah, I want to use video and anything just to make sure that I'm creative and put passing out messages and just engaging with it with a community and stuff. And I realized I could do this whilst I was going through chemo. So I was like, you know, this must mean something because I couldn't do anything, you know. You can struggle to you can get out of bed, but to make music and do all that stuff, I could do that, you know. I could do that from from from from being bedbound. So that was that was quite cool to find out. So yeah, I think, yeah, the main things were just being able to accept it, um, being able to know that you live life post post the condition you're going through. So I was just thinking about life post it, and then also um, yeah, my faith, my faith being uh being a big thing, which is sort of like a discovery of my faith in itself. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 19:29

Talking about then the life after, and this is something that I am personally learning more as I'm talking to more people, because I was a caregiver to my dad when he was diagnosed with terminal cancer, he was already in his 60s. And so there weren't as many big life decisions at that point. In some ways, it was easier because the big decision for my dad at the time was retirement, and that was a no-brainer, right? It was like, we're gonna stop working now. Why would you continue to work? But as I'm learning and talking to people who are diagnosed as young adults, I realized how much of an impact having cancer, you know, impacts so many other things at that age in terms of finding a partner. What do you disclose to people when you meet them? When do you disclose them? And then also impacts on fertility and you know, having children is another big challenge that people often run into. Did you experience that?

SPEAKER_01: 20:38

Of course, yes, definitely. I think fertility is one of the biggest ones that even guys want to talk about. And I I remember the first time I was going through chemo, and I was like, so you're saying they can mess up with the fact that I can have I cannot have any kids, and it's like, you know, okay, it's freeze my sperm. You know, like that's what it was. So and it kind of got me thinking, because see, the thing is, when you get diagnosed with something like this and they talk about all the repercussions, you have to fast forward. Like you have to fast forward in your life. Yeah. So at the age of 21, I was thinking, I've not had time to be thinking about whether I want to have kids or not. But then I'm like, okay, but then you start to ask yourself, do I really would I want kids? Like, oh I'm like, yeah, of course. You know, I want to I want to get married too as well. Yeah, of course. And it's like, okay, so now I have to now start thinking about how I'm gonna explain this to my wife to be, or you know, and my kid, and all that stuff. And and you are right, because I haven't even thought about the fact that it was based on so imagine being diagnosed at a later age. Like, what kind of decision would you have to make? I remember um whilst I'm I mean, whilst I'm going through chemo, and chemo being one of the worst things I've ever been through. I mean, one of the, it probably is the worst thing I've ever been through through my life. And whilst I was going through it, I was like, if this doesn't go, I'm not doing this again. And now obviously I have a son who's um gonna be two in about in a week's time. And um, and I'm thinking, if it came again, I probably would do it again just to be around him. Do you know what I mean? And I'm thinking, yeah, you know, that has changed. That has actually changed. Like I probably will go through chemo again if that's what it needs to be done to still be around it, because I want to see him grow and I don't want him to be without a father, you know, these kind of things. So life decisions do definitely change, you know, um based on your age, I guess, whilst you whilst you've been diagnosed. So yeah, fertility is a big thing. And and I and I I did, you know, conception happened the natural way, so I didn't have to use any of my sperms and whatnot from those frozen. So, yes, you know, you can go through these scare moments, and some some people it might be the other way around. I mean, they might have to use some of their eggs or sperms that have been frozen, whatever it is, but for me, it, you know, it didn't affect that. So I'm happy.

SPEAKER_00: 22:50

Yeah, congratulations. It sounded like you were forewarned because I think the other thing sometimes that happens to people is the medical team that they were working with didn't really put a priority on making sure that the person is fully informed and that they were making good decisions. And then also in lovely America, you know, the medical cost becomes a challenge when it's not covered by insurance. And so there are lots of challenges, I think, uh, in the American context, just because our healthcare system is crap. Don't come here. I mean, if what you think one of our brothers. Yeah. Um, and the other question that I was sort of thinking about, I'm I'm always curious about how people's faith, but also their culture, may impact their experience of cancer. And so I've talked about this before, like for the Chinese culture, death is a very, very taboo topic. And so when you know, my dad was going through the last years of his life, that was something that I was never able to talk to him about. How would you say that being Nigerian and was there anything in the Nigerian culture that kind of shaped your experience? Because I know you mentioned, for example, you didn't tell anyone about it, except for, you know, your family and the those closest to you.

SPEAKER_01: 24:21

Yes, most definitely. I think the impact was actually more um post-chemo, which is the aftermath, as opposed to um going through the whole process. So I think the not telling anyone was almost my decision. So I I felt like it was me. Whether it was embedded in me for my culture, I don't know. But I just knew that I didn't want to tell anyone because I felt like so. I'm the kind of person that doesn't like pity. So I didn't want people to look at me and like, oh, you know, he's going through fists and sending all these cards and flowers and whatever. I I didn't want to know that. I wanted to just go through it myself. And um, and I felt like it was a moment for me to discover fully sort of like what I'm made of, my tapestry as a human being and what I really believe in. So that in itself was pre-oh going through chemo, but I think post-chemo and post-cancer. Um, so that's where the culture came in, which is don't tell anyone, you know, don't tell anyone you've gone through this, just just move on with your life and just put it in the backseat and just live life as full, and nobody has to know apart from us. And I'm like, how can I do that? Like, like that's not possible. Like, I can't do that. And um, so I know like obviously my parents were not, um, mostly my mom was not really in agreement with me talking about you know being a cancer survivor and making it public because she was like, relatives will see it, and you know, they start saying stuff. And you know, back in the days, I mean, I don't know, maybe it's a cultural thing where they say, you know, if you're sick with this, maybe some demons are after you. I don't know. Like it was, it was all that stuff. And I just said, you know what, this is my life. Like, I'm gonna talk about it. It's like it happened to me. And I felt like it's I look at it as a credential. Like, I feel like, you know, I've gone through this, I can help other people who are going through it. And I always make sure I explicitly say this, which is people who go through something that, you know, it's a health, maybe a health scare, do not have to, they don't have to feel the the pressure to help other people or talk about it. They don't have to. You have to feel comfortable to share it. Like it's about your, you know, you as a human being, do you feel comfortable sharing this? And I felt comfortable sharing it. Like I knew that that's one thing I wanted to do, which is, I mean, it's what pretty much got me through it, anyways, because I said when I'm going through this, I'm definitely gonna be talking about this and making sure that I can motivate people to maximize their days on on planet Earth. So I felt like probably post-chemo, I was able to start talking to them about, you know, just life in general. I think the relationship between my parents got stronger. Um, we had we actually started talking about meaningful conversation rather than just give me some money or do this and do that and stuff like that. It was pretty much more com you know, more about life and the meaning of life. And even including in the faith that I believe it, I question it as well, just making sure that I'm giving myself the best potential opportunity to know that I'm living the best life I can live, and also making sure that I can help others on the journey as well. So um, yeah, I think I think culture d did play a a role, but I think it was more after the diagnosis or the the treatment and itself.

SPEAKER_00: 27:31

And your mom didn't was not comfortable with you talking about it. It's just not at all. Because in the Nigerian culture, like you just don't talk about it. Is that what it is?

SPEAKER_01: 27:40

You just don't talk about your illnesses. Like these are like these are family problems, you know, you don't talk about it. I think I think that's what it is. And and and I and I thought it was just me, but I also found out that in I mean, in your culture you've said it, and also in the Asian culture over here, they've they've also um basically said that's exactly the same thing. So I felt like, oh, it seems like an interesting thing. Like, you know, why why are we not talking about these things? And you know, we hear about people in maybe people in Nigeria, somebody just dropped down dead, and people thinking, oh, it's a demon. Maybe he had diabetes and nobody was talking about it. Do you know what I mean? And and I think these are the issues that you know need to come to the forefront and start talking about. So I actually, funnily enough, I actually did uh did another podcast for someone in Nigeria, and um he's trying to make sure people start to talk about health stuff. He was literally saying exactly the same thing I said, and I said, really? Like, okay, so I thought it was a family thing. I didn't even think it was an actual Nigerian or you know, uh, or a even an African thing, or even like, you know, a cultural thing and so maybe in the Western world, people are more open.

SPEAKER_00: 28:46

Yeah, I think in the Western society, there's more of a focus on you need to bring awareness. And also, I mean, that's the title of this podcast where I talk about cancer, because I firmly believe that talking is how you're gonna get unstuck, like having that dialogue is how you're gonna move forward with whether that's a dialogue in your own head with yourself or with you know with a loved one, like that's how you're gonna move forward. And so that's probably where the difference is. Um, so did your mom get really mad at you?

SPEAKER_01: 29:16

Oh yeah. Oh, oh yeah. Like there was a big roar in my I mean, my brother had to call me up, and because obviously I'm the I'm the youngest out of four um four boys.

SPEAKER_00: 29:25

And so you're the baby.

SPEAKER_01: 29:26

I am the baby, so yeah, I am the baby. And it's funny as I said, you know, uh, all my brothers actually went to um to school to go to college in America. So they all went to college in America, and one of them stayed, one stayed in St. Louis, and one has gone to Canada, and one's gone back to Nigeria. So literally the oldest one was in Canada. So he just had to call me up and say, What are you doing? Like, you know, mom said, Don't do this. I'm like, whatever, man. Like, he's like, I'm gonna do this, whatever. Like, y'all can talk about what and it's like, so that was that was um that was mixed up with the fact that I wanted to become a social entrepreneur. So it's like um. Um obviously I did my master's degree in marketing. And I started, I was working as a digital marketer for an agency, but I felt my life, I was like, I didn't go through chemo to sit and I'm in an office to do this. Like, this doesn't make any sense. What making brands like Timberland make money, like that's not what I'm about. Like, I'm actually about wanting to impact culture. So obviously got a business loan and quit my job, and they're like, what are you doing? What are you doing with your life? Like, I was saying, I'm gonna talk about cancer. I was like, how are you gonna make money about this? That's like, you know, it's it's ridiculous. Like, no, it was a whole roar for like a good, like, yeah, for a good, you know, even till today, it's only the fact that, you know, somehow, like when I got married, my wife was my mum was like, You got somebody to actually marry you whilst you're doing this? And I was like, what is wrong with you? Like, but then eventually they've come around now. I think they've they've come around now nicely because I felt like um, I think since 2019, I was constantly making a good income for my company and what I'm doing. And so it's like, oh, okay, so you are you're actually making something out of your life. All right, cool, fair enough. You know, it's okay. And yeah, I think also having a kid as well, being a father now, like you know, you can't have a conversation. I'm I'm a father now, so it's like I have a kid, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 31:07

I feel like the grandkids is always what settles all arguments.

SPEAKER_01: 31:10

Literally. I agree.

SPEAKER_00: 31:13

All right, let's talk a little bit about what are you doing with your company?

SPEAKER_01: 31:18

Yeah, yeah. So um the company was set up in 2013 when I was 24. So now I am 33, 2033 now, so we're also 24. I always envisaged to start a company when I was 30, but because of just life, you know, everything was fast forward, and so like I had to do it then. And when I did it then, obviously, you know, I've spoken about tension I had with my whole family and whatnot, but I just knew that this was what I was made for, what I wanted to do. Um early days were definitely not easy. Um, but then in 2014, I met uh Kundwani, who's the now director of the company as well. He suffers or and still lives with ME. Um, it's uh mealgic encephalomyeltis, which is known as chronic fatigue syndrome. It has similar symptoms to longer COVID. And his story is almost similar to mine. He got diagnosed with that in his final year at university, just like I did, and that altered his whole life as well. So, but with ME, you can't almost like you can't do physical work and you pretty much can't be employed because you're always gonna be ill, you know, like maybe once or twice a week and stuff like that. So you can't even make full-time employment. So he just thought to himself that, you know, the venture that I'm doing is really amazing. And I thought to myself, okay, you know, come on board and let's change it to just not just cancer. Because before it was all about cancer, um, but now I'm like, let's just do it for marginalized health conditions. Like, you know, let's talk about how media can be a tool to help people to do this. So fast forward 2017, we created this thing called the Silent Affair Project, which is what we do now mostly. That's pretty much our call it our gift to the community, which is giving them a resource of different workshops, material, content that is all media-centric, um, teaching skills about how to use media. But the whole purpose of this is to make sure that you are researching a health condition. So it's like you're basically engaging the public with a health condition. Um, you do the research, um, real life stories, like you know, like we're doing here, and then they've obviously publicized, make sure that you know it's propagated to the community. Most of the people that come to our workshops are young people, so we get young people from secondary school years all the way straight through to university. But I'm talking about it as like it's easy, but it's not. It's actually quite difficult for a good chunk from 2013 straight through to 2018. We were filming weddings. That's what we were doing. That's what we were doing to pay the bills. Um, enjoy those moments, but never want to go back to do it again. We are very important about being local. We are we are locally trying to make sure we engage with Manchester to make sure that we can build a blueprint um that eventually can be replicated across the nation, in the UK here, and potentially globally, who knows? Um, but you know, I heard a good saying which is the light that shines the furthest shines brightest at home. For us, we want to do the best we can in making sure the city of Manchester is really absorbing this movement and it's becoming a culture whereby people actually use media just to raise the awareness of health conditions. We don't want to just watch films of just health conditions, but like we just believe that that should be something that people can start to uh you know understand and start to implement, really.

SPEAKER_00: 34:31

Yeah, it's really cool. Thank you for sharing. Where can listeners find more about your project or connect with you online?

SPEAKER_01: 34:39

Yes, they can find more about our projects on our website, which is freshrb.com. Um, it's not fresh r and b, it's fresh r b. So people always say fresh r and b. You're like, we're not a music channel. No, don't do that. It's freshrb.com. And um they can find us on every social media platform called Fresh RBC I C. And the C I C stands for Community Interest Company.

SPEAKER_00: 35:01

Awesome. Well, Babs, thank you so much for coming on to share a little bit about your journey. I hope your mom doesn't come chasing after me and saying, What are you doing? Why are you making him talk about cancer publicly?

SPEAKER_01: 35:17

Yeah, she's fine now. She's all right with it. She's she can't do anything about it anyway.

SPEAKER_00: 35:21

So thank you so much. It's been awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 35:24

Thanks for bringing me on.

SPEAKER_00: 35:27

Babs mentioned the idea of fast-forwarding your life a few times during our discussion. And I thought it's a pretty succinct way to describe a critical part of people's experience with cancer. Because in an instant, a cancer diagnosis forces you to answer all the major life questions you haven't yet answered with nearly no time to thoughtfully understand the issue and think through all the options and potential outcomes. Too many have had to deal with lasting consequences because they were either not fully informed or not informed at all. I also thought it was very interesting for Babs to share that it wouldn't have made a big difference if his medical team was more direct in their communication while Babs was waiting for his diagnosis. I know it would have driven me crazy to have to wait six months to get a confirmation and all the while experiencing strange symptoms. But that's also what I love about making this podcast, is that it challenges my assumption about other people's experiences and perspectives. I am embarrassed to say that I don't know anything about Nigerian culture, even though I lived in NYC for seven years, and it has one of the largest Nigerian populations in the US. But it was so interesting to hear about the similarities between the Nigerian and Chinese cultures, such as not talking about illnesses and being suspicious about non-traditional careers. And that's a wrap for today. Please follow the podcast if you would like to hear more stories from cancer survivors, caregivers, and family members. I would really appreciate it if you can leave an honest rating review in Apple Podcasts or Podchaser so I know if I'm serving the interests and needs of you listeners out there. You can also share any feedback and suggestions directly to me by visiting talkaboutcancerpodcast.com. Thank you for listening.