What is the universe telling me

Sagar took us through some in-depth reflections about health, purpose, and the importance of having a creative outlet, which he discovered when his wife started to paint on his head after chemo.

Check Sagar and Sheena's collaborations on Instagram @myheadisacanvas!

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Thank you for listening!

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My reflections on the conversation:

We have heard about so many different types of creative outlets from the guests this year. Many write, some create art. I love that Sagar’s version of the creative outlet is a combination of both of those things AND it’s done in collaboration with his wife, Sheena. We often talk about how caregivers’ needs may be less prominent so this is a beautiful way for Sagar to bring her along on the healing process. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:03

Hey everybody, this is Serena, your host for the Talk About Cancer Podcast, where I talk to cancer patients, survivors, and caregivers about their experiences dealing with cancer. We're all given treatment plans when cancer shows up in our lives, but no one gives us plans for navigating the hard conversations we need to have and the relationship challenges that will inevitably come up. This podcast is meant to help fill that gap for those dealing with cancer. I think of it as an on-demand audio support group where listeners can hear about others' experiences managing similar problems, but most importantly, get insights about how our loved ones are feeling on this journey, none of us signed up for, and better understand where they may be needing support. In today's episode, Sager takes us through some in-depth reflections about health, purpose, and the importance of having a creative outlet, which he discovered when his wife started to ping on his head after chemo. Let's dive into his story now, and I will check back in with you at the end. Welcome to the Talk About Cancer Podcast. Let's start with a quick intro and have you tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, where you're from, and anything else you would like to share with our listeners.

SPEAKER_01: 1:28

Hello, guys. Uh, my name is Sagar Shaw. I uh want to start out by thanking Serena for having me. I'm excited to be here and to uh share with you guys my story and journey. I'm originally from Nashville, Tennessee. I um finished all my schooling and undergrad at Vanderbilt University in Nashville and I later went on to dental school. I was in New York City for five years and hopped around and actually I'm here in the Bay Area. Just moved here a couple years ago. My in-laws live not too far away, and this is where my wife is originally from.

SPEAKER_00: 1:58

Can you maybe take us then to the start of your cancer experience? How did you find out that you have cancer?

SPEAKER_01: 2:06

Yeah, I started getting symptoms in the beginning of April, and we had gone into a lockdown here uh during the pandemic in the Bay Area in the middle of March. And so for a couple of weeks, I felt completely fine. You know, my wife and I were just bought all up in the house, and you know, we were doing the typical Zoom calling with friends and you know, Netflix binging, and you know, just quarantine life. Yeah, quarantine life, just getting used to it, looking at all the memes and all the videos, you know, that were going viral. So we were, you know, it's definitely a time to remember. But uh, decided to take a run again, roughly in the beginning of April. As I was running, I I started feeling almost a funny kind of heaviness at my hips. I thought it was it was definitely unusual. And it started out very subtle, and then it progressively got to me to a point where I I couldn't run anymore. I was just had to walk. Once that started to kind of settle in, it's my my back, I had a really extreme lower back pain that was fairly debilitating. I I was had really trouble just you know being mobile in general. I would just have kind of walked while funny, and and I had this almost crushing bone-on-bone pain on my lower back. And it was just so unusual because I thought maybe, you know, as a dentist, I I threw off threw out my back, you know, ergonomically, you know, you know, we we shift in our seats in all different positions, and posture is always a hard thing to maintain. More I thought, you know, maybe I just threw out my back uh while sleeping. But finally, my you know, my wife said it's not being a guy, basically. You know, you stop toughing it out like you know, if something is not you know resolving itself in the next in in two weeks, there there's something else is going on. And you know, in retrospect, I'm kind of like beating myself in the head is because there was other signs too. I mean, the fatigue that I was getting, I was even getting night sweats. There was times when I was um I would be drenched in sweat while sleeping, and those are what they call B symptoms. And uh again, I you know, at the time you're not thinking cancer or anything serious, it's just amazing that I didn't jump on it quicker. But I I wish I had just been a little more in tune with my body. And cancer, I mean, every day counts, in my opinion, you know. I mean, stage one can go to stage two very quickly if you if you don't catch it at a favorable time, especially with the wrong cancers, can unfortunately have an unfavorable prognosis. But so I did end up getting some blood work done after consulting some family friend doctors and just getting some opinions from friends and I guess said some things that raised some red flags, and that's what led me to um you know get some blood work done. And um happening during the pandemic was it was a little tricky getting appointments and you know, navigating the system and you know, being a little weary too with COVID going on to actually um take that burden on almost. So yeah, that that was quite a challenge. But unfortunately, uh when I got a lot of my blood tests, I there were elevated markers uh that indicated cancer. Obviously, it was a huge, huge shock. And uh, you know, I I just thought I was always just a young buck, you know, like nothing was gonna take me down, you know. I just in general, I've always been known to a person who's you know a lot of energy and healthy. And to me, it was just a shock. Wow, like how did out of all people, like what did I do? It came as a huge kind of slap in the face, just right out of left field for me.

unknown: 5:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 5:05

So, anyways, I had to get a scan, and uh, initially the scan showed a huge uh mass on my lung. And so initially we thought it was lung cancer. But one thing that I've learned about the medical system is that you gotta really let kind of the whole process play out in terms of definitively being able to diagnose what you have. So luckily they got a biopsy um from my lung and they confirmed that it was lymphoma, which as odd as it sounds, was kind of a sigh of relief because I was rest assured that lymphoma is uh one of the more curable cancers and uh something that can be managed and has favorable long-term outcomes as well in terms of relapsing and whatnot. So that was huge in terms of you know, going from that level of shock of thinking I had lung cancer to lymphoma. But there's still that those emotions of why me and anger and where did this come from? You know, no one in my family has ever had it. What did I do? Did I have some agency in that? You know, yeah. A million questions swirl in your mind at the time.

SPEAKER_00: 5:59

Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you, but you just answered it, which is nobody in your family has had cancer before, because I feel like like for someone like me who's gone through it with a few family members now, like it's always in the back of my mind, like, ooh, this could happen at any time. Because once you've gone through it and you sort of understand the fact that there is no rhyme or reason, like it's not really about how well you take care of your body, genetics, like it's a lot of times just kind of random. And so I can understand why in the beginning you're trying to rationalize, like why.

SPEAKER_01: 6:33

Yeah, even up to this day, it's uh I'm very torn, you know, in terms of the nature versus nurture. And no, I know a lot of cancer is out of people's hands. Uh, there's a side of me that's a little more like kind of forgiving, but there's also a practical side of me where I'm just like, if no one else in my family had it, why me? Did I have any agency in it? And I I guess sometimes, and this may not sound very probably not a popular thing to say, especially in the cancer world, is that you know, in a situation like mine, is it's natural for me to do some introspection to say, hey, was I exposed to something? That were there things that I did. But at the same time, you know, I I didn't come with a life manual either to know what to do, what not to do. I didn't ever expect cancer. So it's um one of those things where I try not to beat myself up over it, but uh, you know, I I got a I guess a second chance, so to speak. So anything that I may felt like that I can change or, you know, live a healthier life, then if anything, see this as a shakeup.

SPEAKER_00: 7:27

So what would you say you're doing differently now? You know, we talked about you're trying to not beat yourself up, but then there's still I think this thought of, well, maybe there's something I can do differently going forward.

SPEAKER_01: 7:39

Yeah. For someone who's just doing any introspection where you're you're trying to figure out, well, what were some of my lifestyle choices that uh are commonly known as probably not healthy or something that could have weighed me down is possibly contributing to it. And I I think for me cancer is probably a mixed bag of things. I I don't know if we'll ever find an A leads to a B, you know, reasoning as to why it's something led to cancer. I think again, cancer is one of those things where you know you kind of fill the cup and with different things and then just one thing is like that last straw breaks a camel's back type of thing. But you know, for me, I I think I at least during my cancer journey, during the time I was doing chemotherapy, I I wanted to change. If I did have any agency, what what is it that I can potentially change? But you know, I would say what growing up, I think there's, you know, uh externally and internally, I think I did take on a lot of stress for various reasons. And stress, unfortunately, because it can't be quantified in the lab or medically, it's it's not something that someone can say whether or not it really led to it, but just little little things. And you know, if you're constantly being bombarded about it, or if your mind constantly handles it in a certain way, that stress converts into juice, so to speak, in your in your body. And it that juice is poison to some degree. And I think over time it can really weigh down your body. So yeah, I I think stress is one thing that I really want to try to um manage. It's one of those things that's it's uh it's like a muscle. You gotta work at it, and you know, there'll be times where you just boom, that stress goes off the roof, and then you just have to bring yourself back down to earth.

SPEAKER_00: 9:10

What are you doing to help you manage stress nowadays?

SPEAKER_01: 9:14

Yeah. So I would say one of the biggest things is I used to work probably more than I should have. So one thing is just just trust that life will work out and not having to work so hard, just kind of taking time for myself and you know, enjoying it. I grew up in in a family where my my dad immigrated to this country, he owned his own business and it was a big part of his life that he thrived in his business, but at the same time, it caused a lot of stress, you know, and that stress spilled over into the family, and I found an obligation in helping him out and working, and I was happy to do it and stuff like that. But that stress didn't always bring a lot of happiness, it didn't always bring joy or time for other things.

SPEAKER_00: 9:48

As growing up, I it's a true immigrant story, I feel like and you know, it's it's a family obligation, right?

SPEAKER_01: 9:55

You know, yeah. I mean, you know, there's a lot of good to that. There is, I mean, I think that that story, there's a lot of good to it. But I I can't speak in my father's and my mother's shoes, but as an outsider, somewhat looking in, it's there's a lot of drawbacks to it too. And again, a lot of it's just not my external, it's also the way I was taught to handle stress or how I personally just my concept of stress. So, you know, that stuff is hardwired into you when you're very young sometimes. And these little things they add up and they build up, and your body, it it just keeps bombarding your body.

SPEAKER_00: 10:22

So you try to work less.

SPEAKER_01: 10:23

Yeah, and I think I started working hard in my own career, just started work, work, working because that's kind of what I saw. But even within all that, I've always wanted to kind of make a name or build something outside of my career. That had always been my kind of a goal, whatever that be. I think the fact that I was able to take a step back and and realize that you know, work is not basically everything. And that giving yourself time to just sit back, relax, enjoy, or even just use your time to tap into your creative potential is something that could bring a lot of happiness. It's probably the root of some of my stress is not having that secondary meaning in life, you know. And that was something that did weigh on me. You know, even during the times I was working, I always wanted to, I love to write. I always wanted to kind of write articles for um for just very various publications, but one of them I did want to write for was a dental magazine, one of the major dental magazines. And it wasn't until like during my cancer journeys when I started getting serious, was when I started writing. I started getting feedback from you know friends, I started sending my article out and whatnot. And, you know, long and behold, I sent it to the publisher and the publisher really liked it. So it just kind of underscores the fact that sometimes we get caught up in routine. In my case, just work kind of like humdrum lifestyle. You just it was it was kind of lame and looking back.

SPEAKER_00: 11:36

Why do you think it took until after your diagnosis that you started to write and really push that forward?

SPEAKER_01: 11:45

You know, it's I I guess the work itself was just sometimes exhausting. But there was always a part of me that felt, you know, I I was always meant for so much more, or like I was built for so much more, you know. And that in and of itself was a stress. But I I think there's you gotta make room sometimes for for doing what you love or, you know, at least trying to seek that out because I I think there's a level of unfulfillment and unfulfillment is is anxiety or stress to some degree, is the not being able to live your full life. And for me, that that was an aspect of just my overall like kind of lack of well-being before my cancer that I felt honestly, for at least for me, that I felt like what is this all for? Like, why am I here? Like, what do I have to offer to the world, you know?

SPEAKER_00: 12:27

So it sounds like after the diagnosis was when you had a chance to maybe slow down and reflect and so say, okay, now's the time because not now when.

SPEAKER_01: 12:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 12:44

Is that kind of what happened?

SPEAKER_01: 12:45

Yeah, you know, I think again, I I I speak from the framework of like I knew my cancer in a lot of ways, and I'm I'm very lucky and blessed in in the sense that I knew this cancer was curable, my prognosis was favorable. And so from a relatively early part of my journey, that was always in the back of my mind. I guess what is the universe telling me with all this? You know, like God or some higher being didn't is not gonna let me down with this. But what am I gonna take from this? It was one of those things that really just I couldn't help but to think because I when I was in the chemo war, everyone's fate was very different, you know. And I guess being from the I guess the medical field myself, I had a fair understanding of where this would ultimately lead. And there was something inside of me that, you know, I I I I definitely have another chapter after this, many more chapters to come, but I I felt like this was something that was hopefully that would shake me up in ways that were ultimately to be very positive.

SPEAKER_00: 13:36

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Congratulations, by the way, on getting the article and getting great feedback there. Um, I think you have children, Ray.

SPEAKER_01: 13:45

It was like I actually do not have children.

SPEAKER_00: 13:46

So you do not have children. Okay. There were children on your page. Yeah, those are my two nephews. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 13:52

So they live in Nashville. My my sister's two sons and uh uh nine and eleven, and I love them to death. Two really cool little kids, and um just a lot of fun. I hadn't seen abandoned come because of the pandemic and my cancer and whatnot. So I hadn't seen them after maybe maybe 15 months or so. And so that picture was just posted as you know, me finally being able to see them um with no hair, and you know, so I became back a new person.

SPEAKER_00: 14:17

So did they know what was going on with you?

SPEAKER_01: 14:20

You know, yeah, they did. Um I think uh, you know, they're pretty mature, I would say, for their age. And I think my sister explained to them what was going on. And it was really cute once I I had heard a story during my cancer journey is that I guess the young one, when he fell down, he had to go to the urgent care room. And uh, after knowing that I had cancer, um, he had realized that he had to take some type of medicine um for his own injury, and then he had very, very innocently had asked my sister, uh, Am I gonna lose my hair too? So uh but yeah, they they knew it. And uh, you know, they were very uh supportive. And you know, I used to always call them during my time off and during the whole cancer journey. But yeah, my my family has always been my rock, my wife has always been my rock, and they've been very supportive and great.

SPEAKER_00: 15:05

And so did you actually talk to them about your experience? What was their reaction?

SPEAKER_01: 15:11

You know, I I do hope to have kids one day, and the reason being is that I feel like I I've I've been through a lot in life and uh feel like I could impress upon a lot of things for someone younger and willing to learn, and even for my nephews, you know, that they're at an age where they can start to think about, you know, some critical decisions. Most people may think a nine and 11-year-old, what are you gonna tell them? But you know, a lot of these things with health and you know, taking care of yourself and making the right choices, like, you know, their brains are sponges right now. So you know even during my cancer journey, I didn't I didn't necessarily like want their sympathy or empathy or whatever it be. It was just more of you know, what can I offer them from my experience? I'm not saying that everything is, you know, within their control, but you kind of want their brains to be wired in a way that just set them up for success. A lot of that can be impressed upon at a young age. So I I I think it's super important to slowly but surely, you know, communicate with anyone young to, you know, make the right decisions in so many aspects of life.

SPEAKER_00: 16:06

And I I know you mentioned that you do plan to have children someday. Did your medical team talk to you about how treatment might interrupt with that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 16:16

Yeah, yeah. No, it's uh I I think that is probably one of the biggest things that kind of hit me pretty badly is that uh my wife and I were maybe planning a a family ahead of time before the cancer, but uh with the pandemic and then obviously my cancer more than anything kind of threw a wrench in that before I started chemo, went through the talk with fertility and you know, taking the necessary steps to bank. Um but I was very taken aback by the possibility that you know a biological kid may not be my cards. And that actually hit home a lot more when I had to go through what we call a bone marrow transplant, which is where you have to go through a very strong regimen of chemo. I've kind of had mixed opinions from doctors in terms of fertility of some doctors seem to think that fertility is near gone, some tend to think that's not a black and white thing, but it's not necessarily easy to have kids. And some people have given me hope that you know people have gotten pregnant or have had kids after cancer. So but yeah, I know I mean that that possibility had been raised and out of all the things from cancer, you know, with all the positivity that I was hoping to carry out, the one thing that really, I guess, brought me down was the possibility of not having kids. And uh, like I said, I've always thought about yeah, being able to teach uh someone younger or a kid of mine that I I've always wanted to do, and that possibility of not having it just because of this illness is was really devastating for me.

SPEAKER_00: 17:43

What was your wife's reaction to all of this?

SPEAKER_01: 17:47

Oh, I mean, she as a as a caregiver, that's uh from the get-go. I mean she was devastated to say the least. I I think to be honest, even despite me going through the chemo and whatnot, I think she was on top of a lot of things much more than I was. But in terms of the emotional hit, as odd as it sounds, I think she she took it a lot harder. Um you know, that that's tough. No one really mentions it, but the possibility of of losing a spouse, especially at a young age. Like in the very beginning, we just didn't know. Like it wasn't until later where I started understanding even what lymphoma was and what it's all about and the prognosis, you know, all that stuff came later. But just that word cancer has that buzzword, it's like the C word, you know, you don't say it, and you know, it just we always thought it was a decent and that's what it spelled out pretty much. But um it was a it was a very tough journey for her as a caretaker. Luckily, um I also had the support of my mom who came uh to stay with us during the cancer journey, just to kind of give the support and you know, making sure, you know, I was eating the right things and whatnot. So that that was a huge help for her as well.

SPEAKER_00: 18:50

Yeah. That's what moms do, right? Make sure that's a good thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 18:54

You know, for sure. You know, you can I'm I'm always gonna be her little baby, so it doesn't matter. I can be 50 years old.

SPEAKER_00: 19:00

So yeah, but thank goodness for moms during those times.

SPEAKER_01: 19:03

For sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 19:04

And then that leads me to you and your wife's collaboration on my head is a canvas. Tell me a little bit more about that. How did that start and what has that done for you guys? I think it's a very beautiful thing, but love to hear from you.

SPEAKER_01: 19:20

Yeah, sure. So just to kind of uh give an idea of what uh what this is. So I my wife and I have this Instagram handle called My Head is a Canvas, and it's uh spelled just as it sounds. It's essentially it's uh a collection of painting and artwork that primarily my wife has done on my head ever since you know I started chemo and I uh lost all my hair. It's uh essentially, I guess, a blog where um I I chronicled a lot of my cancer journey, but even outside of that, I've I was able to kind of share a lot of my thoughts on various things, whether it be a current event or just uh a newfound kind of uh opinion or a feeling that I had of any sort. So it's been kind of open-ended, but I guess the major charm of it is the artwork and the the fact that it's artwork on my head, on someone's bald head who went through cancer, which was the most obvious sign of someone having gone through cancer. I mean, before my cancer, I actually had, you know, I was growing my hair out. I was uh, you know, I I got this weird idea for something for to get it like grow up my hair and have a man bun. And I was so excited about it. And then, you know, right when I could tie it up, uh six months to a year later, you know, it it all kind of came down. And you know, that was kind of upsetting. But I guess that was the least of my worries. But you know, I I guess uh something inside of me was like, you know, I I gotta keep doing something crazy with my head. So something, something eccentric. So um the the idea came when my my wife's uh sister and her husband were actually visiting, and we were just trying to figure out things to do when they came into town. And uh, you know, something just kind of kind of got into my head where I'm like, you know what? Let's just like tic-tac-co. Let's like doodle on my head, let's just randomly doodle on my head. I have a blank head right here, a blank canvas. And so when they came into town one night, I uh we had some you know, markers and whatnot. And um, I just let them have at it. I I just sat sat uh sat on a chair and they were just kind of doodling on my head. And my my wife actually growing up always loved to do artwork and um Yeah, she looks practiced based on what I think she looks definitely seasoned, uh, but it's interesting because you know I told you that a lot of things we do as children, and you know, a lot of talent that we have, it unfortunately gets kind of buried as time goes by. And you know, I always saw my my uh wife's artwork in the past, and you know, I always thought it was a kind of a thing of the past, but it wasn't until she actually started drawing on my head that day, and she drew almost like uh uh an egg, like a yolk that was just kind of splattered on my head. But the way she did it, after I looking at it, was like, wow, she knows this is really good artwork. Like this is you know, like this is this is no joke. You weren't just playing tic-tac-toe. You weren't just drawing a smiley face. Like this is, you know, like maybe you should pick back up on this. This is our opportunity to do it, you know, like and so you know, one thing kind of led to another another. And I I told my wife that a lot of people are curious about my journey, and a lot of times people hesitate to ask or feel like they're interfering. And you know, I I wasn't a big fan of always texting the same, you know, template to people of like, hey Sagar, how are you feeling? And then you kind of give like this cookie cut answer. But you know, I and it also kind of goes along with the fact that I didn't want to just be seen as like some victim to cancer, as like some poor soul to just sympathize with. But I thought, you know, I thought, what if we chronicle this cold cancer journey by you drawing on my head and me being able to finally express myself, you know. I like I said, I always loved to write, but I never quite put pen to paper and also put pen to paper in a way, especially on social media or just in general, to the general public, I guess was kind of reserved. What do people care about what I think, you know, or so on and so forth. But you know, I I thought, at least at the very least, my cancer journey, I could express what I was going through, or not even just like the humdrum, you know, day-to-day things I'm going through, but like what I thought about food as like as medicine, or what I thought about chance and the idea of luck, or you know, being thankful. And if you go through a lot of that artwork, but you'll you'll kind of see how I tied it in my cancer journey, not just to the day-to-day of you know, me throwing up or I feel like you know, crap and this and that, but just things that I really thought through all the introspection, how I could relate to the world what my cancer journey meant to me, or what I could share from it. I I think of the humans of New York project, you know, I was I was a big fan of that, you know, just how a painting or a picture kind of encapture someone, and then people would want to read, hey, what is that person going through? And people people loved it, you know, one thing led to another, you know, five followers led to ten, ten to twenty. And I never thought I would be the type of person to get on this bandwagon, but I felt like it was something that people genuinely enjoyed. And I guess just with the positive feedback and the positive reception that my wife and I got, we kept at it and we're trying to make it more than just the cancer, you know. Now that my hair is going back, I I recently talked about how I I want to start getting hair designs in my head, how I always used to not be so comfortable with my body in terms of expressing myself in that way, you know, like whether it be like tattoos or whatnot. But the fact that I have this newfound project, I'm almost like happy to kind of sport that around. It's almost gave my cancer meaning to some in odd, some odd way. So and I think a lot of my beliefs stem from that.

SPEAKER_00: 24:36

And just like you said, because I did read through a few of your posts, and I really liked how, as you said, some of it is about larger global events that are happening around the world or sometimes in our country. But what's so interesting is you connect it back to your experience with cancer and how that makes you think of the experience you have with others and your reflections and what that means to you now and how your perspectives may change. And I I just love how you tie that together. I mean, Instagram, I think, is a very visual focused platform. But yeah, I I actually really do encourage people to also read what you write because you have some very thoughtful pieces on there.

SPEAKER_01: 25:21

I appreciate, you know, and I think the painting definitely helps, you know, I think that's probably most of it. But I think the bait. Yeah, that's a bait that lets that's uh that's what leads people to write, you know. But I think once people, my followers, you know, at least I'd hope to think, you know, after reading a couple, they'd want to hear me out on some things. And like you said, you know, it's not always easy to be concise, especially when you're wanting to talk about one thing and it related to the cancer, but uh I do the best I can and uh cancer gave me the opportunity to say, hey, seize the moment. But at the same time, you know, they don't take it for granted. People would die to be in my position, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 25:51

How has this project impacted your relationship with your wife?

SPEAKER_01: 25:56

Uh very, very positively. You know, if we put our heads together, I think we can do a lot a lot of great things. But uh to be able to ha have something that we both are able to form, like a sense of camaraderie and a sense of bonding and produce something that not only is meaningful to us, but also meaningful to a lot of other people, honestly. It was a blessing that we stumbled upon it. And I think her painting is something that I would want the world, you know, to see as well, because she's definitely got some talent. So yeah, I think we've definitely gotten closer, not only from the cancer journey, but from what's come out of it as well.

SPEAKER_00: 26:26

Did you hesitate though, like before you actually started the page? And this is more of the culture element that I like to sometimes dig at, because you know, like for my culture, there's certain things that are very taboo to talk about. You know, major illnesses is probably one of them, cancer, death, all of that is like stuff you're supposed to keep in the family. Do you have that with your family at all that's maybe culturally influenced that might have made you pause on putting yourself very publicly out there?

SPEAKER_01: 26:57

I mean, absolutely. I I definitely had my insecurities going into it, you know, in terms of, you know, at least expressing my thoughts, you know. And I I can see a progression even up to this day of me being able to kind of open my thoughts to a point where I never thought I would. I I I grew up in a family that I wouldn't say necessarily suppressed it, but it wasn't nurtured per se. But uh, I I I think my motivation going forward is that I think I've cleared the biggest hurdle in a lot of ways in terms of being able to express myself. And I think I gotta get a pretty good medium to work with. Actually, one of the things I want to do for my birthday is um, you know, a lot of times people will try to raise awareness or fundraise. And one thing I want to do is uh raise awareness for lymphoma. You know, I asked for a small donation from people for whatever they want to give. I eventually want to like a little coffee table like footbook of my head as a canvas and some of my best like pictures and paintings and the writing that goes along with it, and then all the proceeds will obviously go to the lymphoma bikini society. I hope to inspire other people, and I've heard from other people that not only is my journey in uh inspiring, but some of the stuff that I've done afterwards has inspired them in a lot of ways. So you you'll be amazed that sometimes the things that you can do, you never know who you can affect, you know, who you can touch.

SPEAKER_00: 28:06

Yeah. Is there anything else that you want to mention to the listeners before we wrap?

SPEAKER_01: 28:11

I would encourage everyone to do what they can to uh you know stay healthy, to make the right choices. You know, not only just because of any possibility of any devastating chronic illness or whatever, I mean, just in general. I having changed a lot of things in my lifestyle, you know, trying to cut down the stress where I can, when I can, um putting the right things in my body, putting the right thoughts into my body, pursuing the things that I want, listening to what my mind is telling me, what my body's telling me, these little things really add up. They transform your body in ways that you have to feel it to believe it. We hear about these stories, but take that leap of faith in your well-being and your body and your spirit and just try it out. I've gotten to a point where I'm almost addicted to this feeling of like wanting to be healthy and wanting to just live life and not to live too much in my cancer. And again, I I was one of the fortunate ones. I was able to get out, and a lot of what I'm saying comes from that. And I know not everyone has the same fate, but uh, and I hope I don't trivialize that in any ways by me saying any of this. But you know, for those who who may have come out of this, you know, a survivor or who may feel like they've gotten prognosis of whatever, five, ten years, don't let that get to you. That's just a number, that's just a statistic. There's so much within your power that you can change to live such a good life or even a longer and healthier life. And I I truly, truly believe that. And you you got one life, you gotta pursue what you want, you know. You gotta make every day count because you never know what's gonna happen, you know, and just gotta count your blessings and be happy with what you have.

SPEAKER_00: 29:40

Thank you so much for taking the time to share a bit of your cancer experience. And like you said, a lot of times, yes, not everybody has a diagnosis where you know you have a lot of confidence about being able to move forward after treatment, but messages of hope is one of the most important things for people on this journey. Journey, so thank you for sharing that message of hope for others.

SPEAKER_01: 30:03

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00: 30:07

We have heard about so many different types of creative outlets from guests this year. Many write, some create art. I love that Sagar's version of the creative outlet is a combination of both of those things. And it's done in collaboration with his wife. We often talk about how caregivers' needs may be less prominent, so this is a beautiful way for Sagar to bring her along on the healing process. And that's a wrap for today. Please follow the podcast if these stories are resonating with you. Also, I'm in the process of planning the 2022 season. So if there's a topic you would like me to explore, please contact me at infotalkaboutcancerpodcast.com. Thank you for listening.